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NancyB's avatar

Enjoyed these reflections and those of commentators. To me the cyclical theories I've read, and most progressives ones as well, aren't very coherent because they usually leave out the singular changes to the planet.

How can history really recur when the physical means of sustaining human life will be (has already been) so drastically altered? Even if we posited a consensus view (in the West) about human goods and harms, how could those goods/harms as measured in the 17th or 19th century ever come back around to something comparable in the 21st or 22nd century? All the good things––productivity of wealth, medical advances, utility from technology, denaturalizing of various kinds of domination––aren't comparably "good" across time if what is deemed good turns out to be neither progressive nor regressive but kind of non-measurable, given the huge uncertainties about what they mean vis a vis the necessary foundation for human life.

Then there is the fact that neither cyclical nor progressive models of history would make much sense to peoples who were killed at a big enough mass scale that they had no real descendants, and the end of history has already come. (The singular "we" of the species might be a dubious construct to think with.)

If that framework does invalidate those models of history, it doesn't make history shapeless or without rhyme or reason; one-directional historical change certainly happens and may very well make all the difference. But it's a lot hard to name that shape. It does suggest to me, though, that "progress" as a Western post 1492 concept might turn out to be the biggest misnomer in human history. Or it might not, which means that core concept is a bad guide for thinking with.

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James Quinn's avatar

My perspective in discussions like this is always significantly colored by my collegiate training and continuing interest in our biological origins and evolution. It is always useful to remember that the distance between the time we became human (and of course debate about that is hardly completed) and the time the Agricultural Revolution gave us the potential to create what we call ‘civilization' (a term itself fraught with contradictions) is at least a million if not closer to two million. The period of our history then (as compared to our pre-history - that period before the invention of writing - is miniscule. So the hunter/gatherer that emerged from the Paleolithic/Mesolithic had an immense time in which to cement our genetic heritage into place.

We are a complex creature in terms of innate behavior versus learned behavior - our long running Nature versus Nuture controversy. The human brain, that most fascinating creation, has given us the ability to stare at ourselves in a way unknown to any other of our fellow creatures. We have taken that ability and made a vast array of propositions about ourselves - some reasonable, some fantastic, some lunatic. But some traits stand out, and they are reflected in those tendencies which have shown themselves consistently through our individual and collective actions through our history.

What are our longest standing traits? One of them, as I’ve often postulated in posts across the spectrum is our continuing and insatiable determination to separate ourselves into groups of all kinds based on a variety of physical, religious, sexual, political, financial, social, and racial characteristics. Indeed there is almost no difference, real or imagined, however minuscule that has not incited some group or another to separate themselves from some other group or all other groups. The most interesting part of this tendency is that there is really only one difference that has any basis at all in actual biological reality - that we are divided into at least two sexes. And even there the differences are somewhat fluid and in all but one way (the process of procreation) differ only by degree.

Yet over time, we have consistently taken all the other differences, which at most should be subjects of little more than spirited debate to all sorts of lunatic lengths, including the kind of mass violence we call war and the ongoing and increasingly vast expenditures necessary to preparing for the that prospect. Indeed, at the moment a great number of us are actually talking about the unimaginable. large scale warfare between nuclear adversaries which could easily end us all.

So any debate about how the fact that we may have advanced since the dawn of civilization breaks down.

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