I love this. It ain’t gonna happen, but I love this.
I think Haley’s long-term calculation is that enough Trump voters will have buyers remorse by 2028 - either because Trump lost once again or, if he wins, his second term is a catastrophe - that enough Republican voters will turn to her for the nomination. It’s a risky calculation. 30-40% of Trump voters are pure MAGA. The others might be gettable for various reasons. But who really knows?
Oh, the posts are all going to be positive today, aren't they? Well, me too. I won't believe that Nikki will do the right thing until I see it, but I'm willing to be pleasantly shocked. What is her path to future viability in any role if she helps burn the sucker to the ground? Its a gamble, and we see time and time again how these poor souls tie themselves to Trump, in spite of their knowledge of his despicable character, in the vain hope of being one of the last ones on the lifeboat. Its similar to the people who knew that Madoff was a Ponzi scheme, but truly thought it could go on and on until they were so rich that it made no difference to them personally. Tough luck for the rest of you, 'you' being America in this context.
How many of the Christies, Kellys et al are going to be speaking at the convention for Biden? I have the over under at 3, and it will not include Haley.
If you think that Nikki moving to the Dems just to defeat Trump is the solution, you're badly mistaken. If Trump loses, we will have 4 more years of "rigged elections" (if the possibility of the lessons learned in nullifying the vote count aren't used to work more smoothly) and possibly a fourth attempt at a Presidential run. After all, both of Don's parents lived into their 90s.
This is a person who bragged about executing a person without benefit of a trial and his followers cheered, even if they had no idea who that person was.
The only hope is the same amount of persons who came out in 2020 do so in 2024 (if not for the President, at least for the Congress). But I have big doubts that will happen.
Vermont is an open primary state. Haley’s win there is the result of a lot of Democrats and Independents voting alongside [some] Republicans in the Republican primary. This supports your thesis. Not only are there Republicans who long for a more sane politics, but many of us moderates and independents who would welcome a conservative counterweight in the Democratic Party.
The United States is a two-party country and we will always be one. The Dem Party is too incompetent to obliterate the GOP.
Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and the Dem Establishment spent billions of dollars against Trump already. They barely beat him in 2020 by 43k votes out of 160 million voters (0.03%).
Trump will die at some point and it will lead to a power vacuum. The Republican Party will be fixed at some point and return to normalcy.
I agree with the sentiment. But I think two caveats are in order:
1. Most of the Reaganites realize that the reason they began to succeed was because they courted the members of the South with non-democratic tendencies. Joining with the Dems is not going to be a return to power, not even if they form a new party in the wake of GOP collapse. For better or worse, the radical right will always be a part of their demographic.
2. Every "moderate" conservative I've talked to says that they are going to vote for Biden no matter what if Trump is the Republican nominee. If my experience is indicative, Haley doesn't need to bring them, they've already left. At least in national elections. I don't know who she would be appealing to in leaving the GOP.
I hate to point out a brutal reality particular to these political times, but if Nikki Haley did as suggested and tried to lead her moderate Republican supporters to the Democratic side in the election, she would be subject to violent retribution from Trump and the MAGAS, especially if Trump loses. Having to have 24/7 personal security for the foreseeable future would be the least of it; she, and her family, would be saying goodbye to any kind of normalcy and peace of mind.
I'm cranky today so I've been thinking that it simply isn't sufficient to be a Never-Trumper if all one has is a "classical liberal" spiel and a righteous, partisan aversion against voting for any Democrat - especially Joe Biden.
Apparently the latest poll indicates that 82% of Haley voters would go to Donald Trump so "fanciful wish" may be an understatement.
And before anyone even breathes it, No... Biden is not as bad as Trump; neither was Clinton. Thinking like that is what brought us to this moment. It helps exactly no one except Donald Trump and the Vichy collaborators, grifters, fascists and lunatics that are now in control of the GOP. Haley should not go quietly into that good night if she wants any kind of legacy worth pointing to.
I don't care if someone claims a passionate attachment to small government, conservative principles and a yearning for the good old days of Ronald Reagan and a respectable Republican Party. Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which fills up first. If all conservative Never-Trumpers are going to do is bemoan Trump and then perform that both-sideism dance to avoid allying with Democrats or simply give up and not vote then they are worse than useless; they are complicit.
Damon is correct that a movement of moderate and centrist Republican voters to the Democratic Party would pull the party towards the center; although there would surely be some real discomfort and fireworks in the process. I'm not a Republican or a conservative and I'm often uncomfortable with the Democratic Party so I would sympathize. But in the end it may be the only avenue that preserves this republic. At this point I'd welcome any Republicans who abandoned this depraved, whorehouse of a party to at least become Democrat-leaning Independents.
Contemplating a second Trump presidency and what it would do to this country is depressing enough. But the impact it would have on an already precarious global order and the security and lives of Ukrainians, Eastern Europe, Taiwan, South Korea and our European allies would be catastrophic.
Asking her supporters to join the Democratic Party is a bridge too far. I think Nikki's better path is to say to her supporters: (1) Nothing will return the GOP to sanity but a crushing loss this year, or maybe a couple crushing losses. (2) She and they are not the RINOs -- Trump and his followers are the RINOs. They represent the furthest thing from true conservatism. (3) Their instincts are correct: Donald Trump will do everything in his power to turn this country into an authoritarian state and abandon our European allies to Russia. And that therefore (4) they should leave the party (for now) and become unaffiliated. Then vote for the only candidate who can defeat Donald Trump. And then hope and pray that the Republican Party once again becomes a party that they can join in good conscience. Is that likely? I have no idea. But it's the only way it can happen.
One can only hope Haley goes in the manner here desired. She will relinquish any hope of becoming President, but she will show herself as a genuine Patriot (capitalization intended, and with ironic reference to how the word is used by idolaters of the orange adolescent) who places the Constitution as the root of our system.
I will not vote vote for Trump no matter what but voting for Joe Biden is a heavy lift for me. I live in New Jersey which Biden will win anyway but I wonder if I have some duty to hold my nose and vote for Biden or if I should vote for a third party conservative to send a signal that there are still non Trump conservatives out there.
Again I applaud Damon for being the only voice I've heard on the national scene to suggest the anti-Trump GOP join the Democrats. As a liberal frustrated by some of the zealotry on the left (chasing AOC from a movie theatre as an example) we do need moderating voices in the party. In the suburbs in particular, former moderate GOP activists turned moderate Dems can really make a difference at the local committee level. No, they won't change fundamental positions, but there are many Dems that just "go along" with the silly stuff and if someone beings up an alternative view point, it could gain traction.
Absolutely your best blog ! Thanks, Damon.
I love this. It ain’t gonna happen, but I love this.
I think Haley’s long-term calculation is that enough Trump voters will have buyers remorse by 2028 - either because Trump lost once again or, if he wins, his second term is a catastrophe - that enough Republican voters will turn to her for the nomination. It’s a risky calculation. 30-40% of Trump voters are pure MAGA. The others might be gettable for various reasons. But who really knows?
Oh, the posts are all going to be positive today, aren't they? Well, me too. I won't believe that Nikki will do the right thing until I see it, but I'm willing to be pleasantly shocked. What is her path to future viability in any role if she helps burn the sucker to the ground? Its a gamble, and we see time and time again how these poor souls tie themselves to Trump, in spite of their knowledge of his despicable character, in the vain hope of being one of the last ones on the lifeboat. Its similar to the people who knew that Madoff was a Ponzi scheme, but truly thought it could go on and on until they were so rich that it made no difference to them personally. Tough luck for the rest of you, 'you' being America in this context.
How many of the Christies, Kellys et al are going to be speaking at the convention for Biden? I have the over under at 3, and it will not include Haley.
"Burn the GOP to the Ground."
Wishy-washy centrist.
If you think that Nikki moving to the Dems just to defeat Trump is the solution, you're badly mistaken. If Trump loses, we will have 4 more years of "rigged elections" (if the possibility of the lessons learned in nullifying the vote count aren't used to work more smoothly) and possibly a fourth attempt at a Presidential run. After all, both of Don's parents lived into their 90s.
This is a person who bragged about executing a person without benefit of a trial and his followers cheered, even if they had no idea who that person was.
The only hope is the same amount of persons who came out in 2020 do so in 2024 (if not for the President, at least for the Congress). But I have big doubts that will happen.
Vermont is an open primary state. Haley’s win there is the result of a lot of Democrats and Independents voting alongside [some] Republicans in the Republican primary. This supports your thesis. Not only are there Republicans who long for a more sane politics, but many of us moderates and independents who would welcome a conservative counterweight in the Democratic Party.
The Republican Party is never gonna die, Damon.
The United States is a two-party country and we will always be one. The Dem Party is too incompetent to obliterate the GOP.
Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, and the Dem Establishment spent billions of dollars against Trump already. They barely beat him in 2020 by 43k votes out of 160 million voters (0.03%).
Trump will die at some point and it will lead to a power vacuum. The Republican Party will be fixed at some point and return to normalcy.
It's also not like she can't lead them BACK to the GOP if it's burned to the ground
“But it’s really Republicans from the states of the former Confederacy who have seized control of the party.”
That’s it in a nutshell.
Damon,
I agree with the sentiment. But I think two caveats are in order:
1. Most of the Reaganites realize that the reason they began to succeed was because they courted the members of the South with non-democratic tendencies. Joining with the Dems is not going to be a return to power, not even if they form a new party in the wake of GOP collapse. For better or worse, the radical right will always be a part of their demographic.
2. Every "moderate" conservative I've talked to says that they are going to vote for Biden no matter what if Trump is the Republican nominee. If my experience is indicative, Haley doesn't need to bring them, they've already left. At least in national elections. I don't know who she would be appealing to in leaving the GOP.
I hate to point out a brutal reality particular to these political times, but if Nikki Haley did as suggested and tried to lead her moderate Republican supporters to the Democratic side in the election, she would be subject to violent retribution from Trump and the MAGAS, especially if Trump loses. Having to have 24/7 personal security for the foreseeable future would be the least of it; she, and her family, would be saying goodbye to any kind of normalcy and peace of mind.
Way to throw a punch. Kudos.
I'm cranky today so I've been thinking that it simply isn't sufficient to be a Never-Trumper if all one has is a "classical liberal" spiel and a righteous, partisan aversion against voting for any Democrat - especially Joe Biden.
Apparently the latest poll indicates that 82% of Haley voters would go to Donald Trump so "fanciful wish" may be an understatement.
https://maristpoll.marist.edu/polls/the-road-to-the-general-election/
And before anyone even breathes it, No... Biden is not as bad as Trump; neither was Clinton. Thinking like that is what brought us to this moment. It helps exactly no one except Donald Trump and the Vichy collaborators, grifters, fascists and lunatics that are now in control of the GOP. Haley should not go quietly into that good night if she wants any kind of legacy worth pointing to.
I don't care if someone claims a passionate attachment to small government, conservative principles and a yearning for the good old days of Ronald Reagan and a respectable Republican Party. Wish in one hand and crap in the other and see which fills up first. If all conservative Never-Trumpers are going to do is bemoan Trump and then perform that both-sideism dance to avoid allying with Democrats or simply give up and not vote then they are worse than useless; they are complicit.
Damon is correct that a movement of moderate and centrist Republican voters to the Democratic Party would pull the party towards the center; although there would surely be some real discomfort and fireworks in the process. I'm not a Republican or a conservative and I'm often uncomfortable with the Democratic Party so I would sympathize. But in the end it may be the only avenue that preserves this republic. At this point I'd welcome any Republicans who abandoned this depraved, whorehouse of a party to at least become Democrat-leaning Independents.
Contemplating a second Trump presidency and what it would do to this country is depressing enough. But the impact it would have on an already precarious global order and the security and lives of Ukrainians, Eastern Europe, Taiwan, South Korea and our European allies would be catastrophic.
Asking her supporters to join the Democratic Party is a bridge too far. I think Nikki's better path is to say to her supporters: (1) Nothing will return the GOP to sanity but a crushing loss this year, or maybe a couple crushing losses. (2) She and they are not the RINOs -- Trump and his followers are the RINOs. They represent the furthest thing from true conservatism. (3) Their instincts are correct: Donald Trump will do everything in his power to turn this country into an authoritarian state and abandon our European allies to Russia. And that therefore (4) they should leave the party (for now) and become unaffiliated. Then vote for the only candidate who can defeat Donald Trump. And then hope and pray that the Republican Party once again becomes a party that they can join in good conscience. Is that likely? I have no idea. But it's the only way it can happen.
One can only hope Haley goes in the manner here desired. She will relinquish any hope of becoming President, but she will show herself as a genuine Patriot (capitalization intended, and with ironic reference to how the word is used by idolaters of the orange adolescent) who places the Constitution as the root of our system.
I will not vote vote for Trump no matter what but voting for Joe Biden is a heavy lift for me. I live in New Jersey which Biden will win anyway but I wonder if I have some duty to hold my nose and vote for Biden or if I should vote for a third party conservative to send a signal that there are still non Trump conservatives out there.
Again I applaud Damon for being the only voice I've heard on the national scene to suggest the anti-Trump GOP join the Democrats. As a liberal frustrated by some of the zealotry on the left (chasing AOC from a movie theatre as an example) we do need moderating voices in the party. In the suburbs in particular, former moderate GOP activists turned moderate Dems can really make a difference at the local committee level. No, they won't change fundamental positions, but there are many Dems that just "go along" with the silly stuff and if someone beings up an alternative view point, it could gain traction.